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	<title>Comments on: The origin of English surnames 1: work and status</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?feed=rss2&#038;p=128" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128</link>
	<description>&#34;What should they know of England who only England know?&#34;  Rudyard Kipling</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:50:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Carol B.</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-2497</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Aug 2010 00:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>My dad&#039;s family came from England three generations ago. The last name was East. What would that name have come from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My dad&#8217;s family came from England three generations ago. The last name was East. What would that name have come from?</p>
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		<title>By: Blog author</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-2462</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog author</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128#comment-2462</guid>
		<description>William Marshal lived from 1146 to 1219.

You can read all about him here, two articles - the first, about his earlier life, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=1315&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;William the Marshal: The Greatest Knight&lt;/a&gt;, and the second, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=1385&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;William the Marshal: 1st Earl of Pembroke &amp; Regent of England&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William Marshal lived from 1146 to 1219.</p>
<p>You can read all about him here, two articles &#8211; the first, about his earlier life, <a href="http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=1315" rel="nofollow">William the Marshal: The Greatest Knight</a>, and the second, <a href="http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=1385" rel="nofollow">William the Marshal: 1st Earl of Pembroke &amp; Regent of England</a></p>
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		<title>By: rt-sails</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-2461</link>
		<dc:creator>rt-sails</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 23:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128#comment-2461</guid>
		<description>OK, so let&#039;s put it at the first crusade (1095-1099), rather than the third (1187-1192). 

Do you have dates for John the Marshal &amp; William Marshal? Was it, perhaps, that William inherited John&#039;s office and title? 

Whenever the aristocracy adopted surnames doesn&#039;t change when the great bulk of people got them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, so let&#8217;s put it at the first crusade (1095-1099), rather than the third (1187-1192). </p>
<p>Do you have dates for John the Marshal &amp; William Marshal? Was it, perhaps, that William inherited John&#8217;s office and title? </p>
<p>Whenever the aristocracy adopted surnames doesn&#8217;t change when the great bulk of people got them.</p>
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		<title>By: Blog author</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-2268</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog author</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 08:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128#comment-2268</guid>
		<description>I think it can be put a bit earlier than the late 12th century - for example, John the Marshal, whose son William Marshal and grandchildren certainly appeared to inherit the surname.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it can be put a bit earlier than the late 12th century &#8211; for example, John the Marshal, whose son William Marshal and grandchildren certainly appeared to inherit the surname.</p>
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		<title>By: rt-sails</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-2267</link>
		<dc:creator>rt-sails</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wrights worked with wood, as oppposed to Smiths who worked with metal. If the type of metal wasn&#039;t specified, it was usually iron -- a blacksmith. 

I&#039;m not so sure we should credit the Normans for surnames -- not in the sense of family names passed down from fathers to all their children. The practice of adding a sobriquet was usual practice before the Normans, e.g., the Anglo-Saxon king Edward the Confessor (who lost to William the Conqueror) and Scots king Malcolm Canmore. William&#039;s father was Robert, often called Deville, but more often &quot;the Magnificent&quot;. William&#039;s sons all had different 2nd appellations, as did Henry&#039;s. 

I believe we didn&#039;t see true surnames in England until the Crusaders came through Venice on their way back from the wars and copied the practice in the late 12th century. Still, only the aristocracy had that privilege; it wasn&#039;t until the Black Plague&#039;s aftermath that common people needed to be told from each other so their taxes could be collected. That puts the date sometime in the reign of Edward III or after -- mid-14th to early 15th centuries -- about 300+ years after the Battle of Hastings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrights worked with wood, as oppposed to Smiths who worked with metal. If the type of metal wasn&#8217;t specified, it was usually iron &#8212; a blacksmith. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so sure we should credit the Normans for surnames &#8212; not in the sense of family names passed down from fathers to all their children. The practice of adding a sobriquet was usual practice before the Normans, e.g., the Anglo-Saxon king Edward the Confessor (who lost to William the Conqueror) and Scots king Malcolm Canmore. William&#8217;s father was Robert, often called Deville, but more often &#8220;the Magnificent&#8221;. William&#8217;s sons all had different 2nd appellations, as did Henry&#8217;s. </p>
<p>I believe we didn&#8217;t see true surnames in England until the Crusaders came through Venice on their way back from the wars and copied the practice in the late 12th century. Still, only the aristocracy had that privilege; it wasn&#8217;t until the Black Plague&#8217;s aftermath that common people needed to be told from each other so their taxes could be collected. That puts the date sometime in the reign of Edward III or after &#8212; mid-14th to early 15th centuries &#8212; about 300+ years after the Battle of Hastings.</p>
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		<title>By: Lily</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-1527</link>
		<dc:creator>Lily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 14:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128#comment-1527</guid>
		<description>You do now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You do now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Turner</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-761</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Turner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 09:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Small point; Henry I was Beauclerk, not Curthose. Beauclerk meant &#039;learned&#039;, as he was the only one of the family to learn to read (and also pretty sneaky to boot, as both his brothers would find out to their costs). Curthose was applied to his older brother Robert, Duke of Normandy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Small point; Henry I was Beauclerk, not Curthose. Beauclerk meant &#8216;learned&#8217;, as he was the only one of the family to learn to read (and also pretty sneaky to boot, as both his brothers would find out to their costs). Curthose was applied to his older brother Robert, Duke of Normandy.</p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-745</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128#comment-745</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know what a fletcher is</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what a fletcher is</p>
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		<title>By: Hobittual</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-733</link>
		<dc:creator>Hobittual</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128#comment-733</guid>
		<description>Mr Skeers. You relinquish all rights as an English man when you go to the colonies. But Americans tell us that the US is the best country in the world, although they refuse to justify why, so why the interest now? Would you like to be connected with a Brit with bad teeth, horrible food and socialist medicine?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Skeers. You relinquish all rights as an English man when you go to the colonies. But Americans tell us that the US is the best country in the world, although they refuse to justify why, so why the interest now? Would you like to be connected with a Brit with bad teeth, horrible food and socialist medicine?</p>
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		<title>By: Phill</title>
		<link>http://www.webhistoryofengland.com/?p=128&#038;cpage=1#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>Phill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:50:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree with Mike, I hope Turner is not an obsolete occupation as at the moment I am currently am a Turner (CNC Turner to be exact!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Mike, I hope Turner is not an obsolete occupation as at the moment I am currently am a Turner (CNC Turner to be exact!)</p>
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